Algotopian

I'm about halfway through the PDF and I'm wondering why you aren't making this more generally applicable (i.e., Forex, equity, commodities). I know crypto is the new hotness but it's not doing anything new compared to forex, for example.

I've done a first run through it so I may have missed something but here are my thoughts:

Cool idea, but even Filecoin hasn't gone anywhere yet. I'm afraid by focusing on the blockchain + token aspect, you're opening yourself up for a variety of liability that will just get in the way of doing what you enjoy.
If you're minting a fixed amount, and the platform is successful, someone will just copy the idea and replace tokens with USD which will be less complex for algo seekers.
I think there is value in blockchain + algo validation, but I haven't yet seen how you keep the algo secure.
Please just do a patreon :D

@cheez said in Algotopian:

I think there is value in blockchain + algo validation, but I haven't yet seen how you keep the algo secure.

I think you should singularly focus on this, if anything.

backtrader

@cheez said in Algotopian:

I'm about halfway through the PDF and I'm wondering why you aren't making this more generally applicable (i.e., Forex, equity, commodities). I know crypto is the new hotness but it's not doing anything new compared to forex, for example.

This is past the 1st half of the document. You have to start somewhere and offering access to regulated assets requires regulation (money, time and red tape)

backtrader

@cheez said in Algotopian:

Cool idea, but even Filecoin hasn't gone anywhere yet. I'm afraid by focusing on the blockchain + token aspect, you're opening yourself up for a variety of liability that will just get in the way of doing what you enjoy.

The project idea has gone through severa iterations to put the liability at later stages. Having a company means always assuming potential liabilities.

If you're minting a fixed amount, and the platform is successful, someone will just copy the idea and replace tokens with USD which will be less complex for algo seekers.

This does already exist: it is called bank + funds. The goal is to offer a decentralized approach to subscription, funding and being able to draw your own portfolio by means of working directly with smart contracts.

Banks will eventually catch up, and they will also eventually acquire one or more of the start-ups which have created the technologies ... to speed up the catching up process.

I think there is value in blockchain + algo validation, but I haven't yet seen how you keep the algo secure.

You are not alone. This has been considered long without any feasible solution.

4 Please just do a patreon :D

It may be considered. That's why the announcement and execution of the project depend on the reception of the idea.

@backtrader said in Algotopian:

This does already exist: it is called bank + funds. The goal is to offer a decentralized approach to subscription, funding and being able to draw your own portfolio by means of working directly with smart contracts.
Banks will eventually catch up, and they will also eventually acquire one or more of the start-ups which have created the technologies ... to speed up the catching up process.

I think you're over-estimating the applicability of smart contracts for AlgoSeekers. There needs to be a human-friendly interface over smart contracts and thus every smart contract ends up centralized. Algo authors would be technically able to access smart contracts, but I'm not so sure about AlgoSeekers.

That being said, I think your idea is fine and yes, you could potentially be acquired or achieve outsized success. I just don't think it will let you focus on backtrader as much as you think.

Basically, you're creating a decentralized collective2.

@backtrader said in Algotopian:

I think there is value in blockchain + algo validation, but I haven't yet seen how you keep the algo secure.

You are not alone. This has been considered long without any feasible solution.

You could probably automate a lot of this through blockchain, but trusting the validators is tough.

AlgoAuthor requests validation from N independent validators and states that their algo needs M distinct feeds. The author deposits X+Y units of currency into an escrow account. The author states that their results (statistics) are R.
The smart contract chooses N validators (V1...VN) at random (similar to how monero does it). M feed sources are chosen similarly
Using side-chain communication, the feeds are fed into the algo, and the trades verified by the N validators: R1..RN
The validators feed the results back to the main blockchain
If any of the validators disagree between themselves, the escrow is returned
If the validators agree, the escrow X is divided into M+N and distributed to the validators and feed sources.
If the validators results disagree with the authors R, Y is retained by the blockchain for a fine, to be mined later(?)

I don't know. But this is fun, and I think you can solve this problem in a way that is truly democratic and distributed. Still... It would take away from backtrader IMO.

backtrader

@cheez said in Algotopian:

Basically, you're creating a decentralized collective2.

Wrong. From collective2:

Automatically make the same trades as our trade leaders in your own brokerage account.

There is nothing remotely similar in the paper (it was actually discussed)

@cheez said in Algotopian:

Algo authors would be technically able to access smart contracts, but I'm not so sure about AlgoSeekers.

That's covered under AlgoDiscovery which is there for AlgoSeekers. There is of course a human friendly interface to find out things.

The problem with your validators approach is not the approach itself, it is that you are reinventing the blockchain in which nodes (validators) do the Proof-Of-Statement, whereas the project focuses on using the powers of the existing blockchain and mixes them with the reality. Burning of GAS has to be kept within reasonable limits.

@backtrader I'm sure I have to read it more than once. It's pretty densely packed :)

DragonRider

@backtrader @Guest
Hi! Sorry but any chance you can upload or tell me where I can download the whitepaper? It seems the website went down. Thank you very much!

backtrader

@dragonrider said in Algotopian:

It seems the website went down

No. A redirection has been configured to https://www.backtrader.com

@dragonrider said in Algotopian:

any chance you can upload or tell me where I can download the whitepaper

The paper is currently not available.

DragonRider

@backtrader Thank you for the reply. I guess I'll just read the web cache version of algotopian whitepaper.